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	<title>Comments on: Kampan Dilemma</title>
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	<description>Language and Society in Greater Amazonia</description>
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		<title>By: Lev Michael</title>
		<link>http://anthroling.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/kampan-dilemma/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Lev Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, it certainly seems like the way y&#039;all made the decision was pretty much the ideal way to deal with the issue. It would make sense to try something similar with Kampan/Pre-Andine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it certainly seems like the way y&#8217;all made the decision was pretty much the ideal way to deal with the issue. It would make sense to try something similar with Kampan/Pre-Andine.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://anthroling.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/kampan-dilemma/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;q&gt;Are there similar factors at work in the case you mention?&lt;/q&gt;

These are familiar (and thorny!) issues, but this case is somewhat simpler fortunately. Part of the succes of the term &lt;abbr title=&quot;Ghana Togo Mountain languages&quot;&gt;GTM&lt;/abbr&gt; lies probably precisely in the fact that it is not much more than a geographical mnemonic. This continues the tradition of geographical references (which is quite widespread in African linguistics anyway, cf. Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan) but gets rid of the derogatory &#039;remnant&#039; adjective.

That it is catching on can be seen from publications in which the term is used (mostly by non-SIL linguists &#8212; SIL linguists don&#039;t publish that much anyway) and more importantly by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rogerblench.info/Language%20data/Niger-Congo/GTML%20Website/HoWorkshop2006/Administration_info/International%20Workshop%20program.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recent workshop&lt;/a&gt; in Ghana (summer 2006) that brought together all linguists working on these languages; the term was used in the title of that workshop. All present (among them quite a few Ghanaians) agreed that the &#039;remnant&#039; thing should go, and GTM was the best alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><q>Are there similar factors at work in the case you mention?</q></p>
<p>These are familiar (and thorny!) issues, but this case is somewhat simpler fortunately. Part of the succes of the term <abbr title="Ghana Togo Mountain languages">GTM</abbr> lies probably precisely in the fact that it is not much more than a geographical mnemonic. This continues the tradition of geographical references (which is quite widespread in African linguistics anyway, cf. Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan) but gets rid of the derogatory &#8216;remnant&#8217; adjective.</p>
<p>That it is catching on can be seen from publications in which the term is used (mostly by non-SIL linguists &mdash; SIL linguists don&#8217;t publish that much anyway) and more importantly by <a href="http://www.rogerblench.info/Language%20data/Niger-Congo/GTML%20Website/HoWorkshop2006/Administration_info/International%20Workshop%20program.htm" rel="nofollow">recent workshop</a> in Ghana (summer 2006) that brought together all linguists working on these languages; the term was used in the title of that workshop. All present (among them quite a few Ghanaians) agreed that the &#8216;remnant&#8217; thing should go, and GTM was the best alternative.</p>
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		<title>By: Lev Michael</title>
		<link>http://anthroling.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/kampan-dilemma/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>Lev Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks, Mark, for your comments. Yes, I can see why the peoples you are talking about wouldn&#039;t be that happy with being referred to as &#039;Remnant peoples&#039;. I think its great there are native linguists around to argue against the term. Frankly, were there Kampan native linguists I would simply turn the entire naming issue over to them and accept any decision they made (after, of course, issuing dire warnings about &#039;Pre-Andine&#039; ;) ). It&#039;s only a matter of time, of course, until there are Kampan native linguists -- the sooner the better. 

I&#039;m curious if you can say a little more about the process by which the term &#039;Ghana Togo Mountain languages&#039; is catching on. Just thinking about the use of the terms &#039;Pre-Andine&#039; and &#039;Kampan&#039;, for example, &#039;Pre-Andine&#039; is now the term favored by SIL and is enshrined in Ethnologue. As a result of the latter, it also tends used by linguists who are not Amazonian specialists. It is also the term most likely to be used by Peruvian linguists -- and I think here the influence of SIL in Peru probably plays a decisive role. &#039;Kampan&#039; (and its variants), on the other hand, tends to be used by non-SIL, non-Peruvian Arawakanists and Amazonianists. So there are also institutional and national factors behind the use of these terms. Are there similar factors at work in the case you mention?

As for your comments regarding the lack of comparative analysis regarding the languages you are working on, the same pretty much holds for Southern Arawak, the major branch of Arawak that I work with. As you suggest, proper classification may dispose of many of our nomenclatural problems for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Mark, for your comments. Yes, I can see why the peoples you are talking about wouldn&#8217;t be that happy with being referred to as &#8216;Remnant peoples&#8217;. I think its great there are native linguists around to argue against the term. Frankly, were there Kampan native linguists I would simply turn the entire naming issue over to them and accept any decision they made (after, of course, issuing dire warnings about &#8216;Pre-Andine&#8217; ;) ). It&#8217;s only a matter of time, of course, until there are Kampan native linguists &#8212; the sooner the better. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious if you can say a little more about the process by which the term &#8216;Ghana Togo Mountain languages&#8217; is catching on. Just thinking about the use of the terms &#8216;Pre-Andine&#8217; and &#8216;Kampan&#8217;, for example, &#8216;Pre-Andine&#8217; is now the term favored by SIL and is enshrined in Ethnologue. As a result of the latter, it also tends used by linguists who are not Amazonian specialists. It is also the term most likely to be used by Peruvian linguists &#8212; and I think here the influence of SIL in Peru probably plays a decisive role. &#8216;Kampan&#8217; (and its variants), on the other hand, tends to be used by non-SIL, non-Peruvian Arawakanists and Amazonianists. So there are also institutional and national factors behind the use of these terms. Are there similar factors at work in the case you mention?</p>
<p>As for your comments regarding the lack of comparative analysis regarding the languages you are working on, the same pretty much holds for Southern Arawak, the major branch of Arawak that I work with. As you suggest, proper classification may dispose of many of our nomenclatural problems for us.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://anthroling.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/kampan-dilemma/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Siwu, the language I work on, has traditionally been grouped with some fifteen other minority languages scattered about in the mountainous Ghana-Togo borderland. The Germans (who &lt;a href=&quot;http://markdingemanse.nl/the-ideophone/remnants-of-some-ancient-tribal-idiom/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;got there first&lt;/a&gt;) called those languages &lt;em&gt;Togorestsprachen&lt;/em&gt;, literally &#039;Togo Remnant languages&#039;. This name was in use until the late 1980&#039;s despite the fact that it was known that the people themselves didn&#039;t particularly like to be called &#039;Remnant peoples&#039;. (There is a 1992 article by a native linguist fiercely arguing against the term.)

The first attempt to change it was in 1988 in a collection on the languages of Ghana; the proposal was to use &lt;em&gt;Central Togo languages&lt;/em&gt;. This didn&#039;t catch on because it was something of an anachronism, referring to &#039;Togo&#039; in the old sense of the German colony &lt;em&gt;Togoland&lt;/em&gt;.

The most recent alternative has been &lt;em&gt;Ghana Togo Mountain languages&lt;/em&gt;, a name that not only captures the geographical distribution more accurately but also captures the fact that we&#039;re still not even sure that this is a valid phylogenetic unit. This was introduced by a SIL linguist in 1995, and it seems to be catching on now. 

Trouble is, for most of these languages we simply lack the data to do more in-depth comparative analysis. Perhaps in some ten years this loose geographical grouping will have dissolved into higher-order Niger-Congo branches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Siwu, the language I work on, has traditionally been grouped with some fifteen other minority languages scattered about in the mountainous Ghana-Togo borderland. The Germans (who <a href="http://markdingemanse.nl/the-ideophone/remnants-of-some-ancient-tribal-idiom/" rel="nofollow">got there first</a>) called those languages <em>Togorestsprachen</em>, literally &#8216;Togo Remnant languages&#8217;. This name was in use until the late 1980&#8217;s despite the fact that it was known that the people themselves didn&#8217;t particularly like to be called &#8216;Remnant peoples&#8217;. (There is a 1992 article by a native linguist fiercely arguing against the term.)</p>
<p>The first attempt to change it was in 1988 in a collection on the languages of Ghana; the proposal was to use <em>Central Togo languages</em>. This didn&#8217;t catch on because it was something of an anachronism, referring to &#8216;Togo&#8217; in the old sense of the German colony <em>Togoland</em>.</p>
<p>The most recent alternative has been <em>Ghana Togo Mountain languages</em>, a name that not only captures the geographical distribution more accurately but also captures the fact that we&#8217;re still not even sure that this is a valid phylogenetic unit. This was introduced by a SIL linguist in 1995, and it seems to be catching on now. </p>
<p>Trouble is, for most of these languages we simply lack the data to do more in-depth comparative analysis. Perhaps in some ten years this loose geographical grouping will have dissolved into higher-order Niger-Congo branches.</p>
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